it's not just the sequester, all the tax cuts expire. >> that includes the payroll tax cut. it helped people of lower incomes. there's a lot more on the table. >> the payroll tax cuts need to be reimposed. that is the opening to go after social security for example. but, i always thought all the bush tax cuts should expire. i think everybody should have skin in the game. i think you should have a progressive tax code. if you want to deal with the deficit problem, the two things you have to have are people working and you have to have people paying taxes. you cannot cut your way out of our deficit problem. >> quick exit question. this is a yes or no. do we get a better deal if we go over the cliff? yes or no. >> i can't do yes or no. i'm sorry. >> we have little time. >> a cliff is terrible. if there is a terrible deal proposed, then i think it's better to go over the cliff. >> take it to the brink, obama. >> don't go over the cliff. no. no. >> absolute lie not. >> we have a table divided. >>> negotiations about policy ors personalities. [ male announcer ] when it comes to th